Bishop Slattery (RIP)
Offering the Traditional Mass
I have permission from a Cleric of the Diocese of Tulsa to publish here the substance of my conversation with him this week about the plan to end the TLM at Sts. Peter and Paul parish. He contacted me to give his perspective, which is the perspective of a member of our local hierarchy.
This does not represent officially the position of the Diocese, nor merely that of a private layman, but of a man trained for and ordained to Holy Orders with ecclesial authority, expressing his viewpoint from that state in life.
I assured him I will leave out all identifiers and keep it general. This was a relatively welcome reprieve after being targeted recently by two local diocesan priests about this (see two posts about this below).
Cleric X
1. He believes this decision is mainly about the complicated logistics of providing Latin Mass-offering priests in the Diocese. He described well the specifics he is aware of about priest assignment issues. He believes it is not “sustainable” right now for the new pastor at SSPP, Fr. Garcia, to offer the TLM, with priests floating over to help out on Sunday. He says maybe in a year or two if there is interest then.
2. His opinion of the Letter read at SSPP to all people who attend the traditional Mass, which I privately shared with him, is that it really isn’t about further implementing of the Traditionis Custodes Latin Mass restriction, but mainly about the priest assignment issue. He called it a “good letter.”
3. He believes the people who attend the TLM at SSPP (these last 13 years) do so for the liturgy, and not really to be a part of the parish.
4. He thinks many live out east near Inola, it making logistical sense for the group to “follow Fr. Donovan” over to Holy Cross parish an hour east of the city.
5. He believes the chancery is very pro-TLM in its outreach, but respectfully admits there have been serious problems with transparency and communication, and not just related to TLM issues.
6. He says there are only 4-5 priests here who know the Latin Mass, and that this limited number has to do with the fact not many priests are “interested” in saying it, and that ordering them to learn it to say it “would be a disaster.” He emphasized the “desirability” of the TLM, not agreeing all priests should learn it (let alone offer it).
7. He does not believe the position/argument that the Presbyteral Council itself had the bishop remove Fr. Ripperger’s community and Mother Miriam’s community shortly after becoming bishop.
8. He echoed my sentiment about certain architecture of Tulsa parish churches built after the Council, in the 1980’s, yet highlighted that the new standard is the tabernacle returning to the center of the sanctuary with better sacred art.
9. He thinks there is a serious problem with the declining number of Tulsa diocesan priests, not one ordained last year (only one to be ordained this year), for different reasons, in particular going on sabbatical because of “burn out.”
10. He thinks that if “a lot” of the Hispanics wanted the TLM at SSPP it would “go a long way” to having the TLM there. He also said the parish has six Sunday Masses.
So there you go.
My response:
1. First, to get this out of the way, SSPP has FIVE Sunday Masses, not six. I’ve read the Letter several times. I’m not reading it saying or emphasizing what he reads it is saying or emphasizing. It is in fact emphasizing Traditionis Custodes and the need of trads to be better aligned with the post-conciliar liturgical reform and Novus Ordo. For me it is not a good letter.
All things considered, it lacks transparency, provides too little of an explanation, to a community of 13 years, was too sudden and close to the deadline, and seems dismissive. The message I read is:
“Howdy trads. Let’s not address the elephant in the room that you have been a community for 13 years. Just read this one page, you all, don’t ask too many questions, bow your head, accept what it says, and move on. Because that’s obedience, I pray you will be charitable and patient moving forward. Have a nice day.”
2. Having attended the Mass there for a combined period (forced to leave before due to the verifiable hostilities of Fr. Knipe) of two years, with my wife and sometimes my mother, and knowing many of the people for many years, and why they formed this community at SSPP with Fr. Davison, in 2012! IT NEVER was, NOR IS, just about having the Tridentine Mass.
I already posted in detail about their community and how they participate in the parish. There is a very good reason to have the TLM in the parochial parish, which is really part of the thinking, and that is to support the universalization once again of the Mass of the Ages and in the mainstream. To make this birthright available to all.
So Tradition isn’t just effectively quarantined off to the margins. In a sense, those who attend and promote the parochial parish TLM (in contrast say to the FSSP) are in a general kind of way missionaries to the mainstream for perennial Catholicism.
I do not believe most chancery officials in almost any diocese, including ours, are on board with that. I think Pope Benedict was, as was Bishop Slattery (RIP) in principle, but the powers that be have managed right now to undermine the Summorum Pontificum movement which dramatically expanded the traditional movement since 2007.
Since 2021, what has become about 70% of the traditional movement has been WIPED out. As in dead. It was alive and well. Now it is dead.
The Final Solution of that liturgical pastoral program (under Pope Francis, RIP), isn’t just removing the Mass of the Saints from mainstream parishes, but everywhere, permanently. It is a tragedy what went down the last four years, and now in Tulsa. All Catholics must step outside of their comfort zone, and care about this.
3. So, there are A LOT of Hispanics who have fallen in love with the traditional Catholic worship of God at SSPP. They fill pews and sections throughout the church. The sermon is both in English and in Spanish.
It is edifying how reverent, devout, and dignified they are, and in how the dress. What about them? I’m deducing most don’t live out east by Inola, but nearby. Adios, Latin Mass. It was nice knowing you. Until we meet again, I guess.
By my rough estimation from experience, most of the TLM parishioners DO NOT live out east near Inola. For most, Wagoner will be a longer and costlier drive out east. And that would include for the Hispanic families in the city area.
4. So with all due respect, Cleric X, and I’m not accusing you of intentionally doing this, or that your analysis literally does this, but rather that effectively on a practical level, your analysis as a local Cleric does “cover up”or minimize the problems raised. To be communicated to the Okie Traditionalist blog. To trads here and outside of our state reading.
You mostly were silent when I emphasized how this is really about the Crisis in the Church, including the liturgy, at a higher level than the level of logistics and individuals, but about the wholesale watering down of the Faith and liturgy in our diocese (and everywhere) since the Council. I said he was addressing the trees, while I am addressing the forest.
The Tulsa diocese isn’t exactly a shining exception to the current status quo throughout the world. In terms of the traditional Catholic movement and availability of the Latin Mass, there are dioceses with much more fervor and support for the TLM including among diocesan priests Just look at Charlotte, NC, or Detroit, or Madison for example.
Trads here will now have only two parish options that are still relatively hidden. If this happens, per the Letter, and per TC, I expect a gradual shift from the 1962 to the 1970 missal, by means of the “accompaniment” required by TC. At least saying this might persuade the authorities to reconsider.
We wrapped up our conversation talking about common experiences. I sent him links to my History of the Latin Mass Movement in the Tulsa Diocese, and to Archbishop Lefebvre’s Open Letter to Confused Catholics (a must read). LINK, LINK. This is the way to discuss this from one side of the issue to the other, without devolving to censorship, personal, passive aggressive judgments, attacks, or misrepresenting the other view point as “highly misleading” putting words in their mouth. Cordial, open, frank discussion and debate between fellow Catholics, Tridentine and Novus Ordo. Agree to disagree. End in charity.
Cleric X
Thank you Cleric X for taking the time to share your perspective. I’ll ask you to contribute again, if you like. I do think we can agree that critical situations like this, trying to understand it, isn’t really about making personal moral judgments, especially public ones, especially against the bishop at the personal level. Not that at times there might be an element of assessing how trustworthy our local Shepherds are on a personal level.
We disagree though that this is primarily about logistical, material details to which the laity are not fully privy. This is about a philosophical, theological, and doctrinal situation,,because how we worship teaches us what to believe.
Liturgy must be not only reverent but orthodox. It is a statistical fact, that most of those who attend the Novus Ordo do not accept all Church teachings, while in comparison the vast majority of those attending the traditional liturgy do. Stating a verifiable fact is not to be pretentious. It is because how we worship shapes how we believe and live. According to the ancient maxim Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. The Law of Prayer determines the Law of Belief.
I am optimistic about restoration in the very long term, but in the short term (next few years), and more long term (couple of decades) I am pessimistic. The traditional movement will continue to grow, and be persecuted, while the mainstream will continue to spiral downward. I have serious reservations what to expect under Pope Leo, yet also a guarded optimism about him personally.
This summer the question will be if and how he addresses the Latin Mass situation, and if he will come to the rescue. I really hope someone close to him is following right now these kind of reports. Otherwise if things continue as they are (since 2013), looking several moves ahead on the chess board, there will be more Liturgical War. Yet, if the status under Sunmorum Pontificum were to be at all revived, including in the Tulsa diocese, that would result in more PEACE.
Our Lady of Fatima, ora pro nobis.