I was surprised to learn somewhat recently in my life the position of the traditionalist organization of priests called the CMRI, that while the Catholic Church did exist until the 1960's, in the form of the See of St. Peter, the Pope, and bishops in communion with him (as it did since the very beginning), that since the 1960's that divinely instituted structure somehow morphed into a new Formal Schismatic Church. They publicly, formally identify the Catholic Church today as a Formal Schismatic Church. If they are wrong (which they are), they have entered into formal schism, and themselves represent itself a Formal Schismatic Church.
I myself have had three long, separate discussions with a CMRI priest confirming this, while being given no direct doctrinal explanation how this is possible, according to the Church's teaching on indefectibility, when asked several times, except to assert that this is, according to them, first an observable historical fact, and therefore must somehow be in accord with the doctrine of the Faith. Myself, I am not a sedevacantist, and have already exhausted myself years ago studying it to conclude that either it is false, imprudent, or at worst schismatic, therefore to be avoided in itself. I find it somewhat tolerable if held in a modest way, yet as a movement leading to schism, based in part on the writings of Archbishop Lefebvre (who will be canonized one day).
However, we did have a brief exposure once to the CMRI group in eastern Oklahoma, enough to confirm the popular opinion about the CMRI outside of sedevacantist circles. Warning: I cannot discourage the local reader enough to avoid the CMRI in any diocese. I am sure some of their priests and laity are fine people, but, rising above the passing particulars of individuals and material circumstances, if dogmatic sedevacantism is wrong (it is), that logically leads to formal schism, which is actually a greater sin against the Church than heresy.
One error some traditionalists fall into is to think heresy is a greater sin than schism, which can lead to wrong directions. It is the other way around.
From reading their material, listening to their conferences, and personal exchange, their degree of sedevacantism seems to surpass any priestly sedevacantist organization calling itself Catholic. If you visit their chapel, you must do a general confession if you have been confessing to the FSSP, Institute, or Novus Ordo priests, whose ordinations are in the conciliar line following the new rites of consecration and ordination.
You must abstain from meat every Friday, and observe certain pre-conciliar feast days no longer in force, and other since abolished pre-conciliar laws, under pain of mortal sin, that must be confessed if intentionally not observed. The CMRI do not recognize the legitimacy of any Catholic diocese, the FSSP, Institute, diocesan TLMs, approved eastern rite Masses, eastern rite dioceses in communion with Rome, or Novus Ordo parishes.
Their superior has stated in a conference very clearly that while he believes one might go to SSPX Masses for the sake of receiving the sacraments, not only does he not recommend doing so, but holds the organization as a whole to not be Catholic, citing exceptions of certain priests in the SSPX he knows about who are sedevacantist. Based on their position, and their pastoral directives to all Catholics, if for example, you live in eastern Oklahoma, there is only one legitimate church and Mass you can attend, the CMRI. No where else.
You cannot attend the FSSP, doing so must be confessed and stopped. These are the facts. It should not be ignored either that the CMRI has been identified by several impartial law enforcement, investigatory, and journalistic sources as having a history of cult-like behavior, including in some cases, although the prevalence is disputed, spiritual and psychological abuse of the laity, and in some reported cases physical abuse of children. From my experience, I do not believe this is just part of their past from the distant days of their founder Francis Schuckardt, a sexual molester, drug addict, criminal, who claimed at one point to be the pope, and set up the CMRI like his own personal cult.
In contrast, the beauty of the Church's teaching on indefectibility can give us great peace. Christ instituted not only the Office of Pope, but through St. Peter He divinely instituted the See of St. Peter in Rome. As much as the Church could have an anti-pope, an invalid pope, a materially heretical pope, a pope hell bent on destroying the Church, the majority of cardinals or priests in Rome losing their faith, Rome itself CANNOT lose the Faith, not formally, only in a material way in some of its members. It can be somewhat overshadowed by an eclipse, but not entirely. Union with Rome then is absolutely necessary, which the CMRI formally rejects (which the SSPX does not, which is a very different situation).
Within the Church, a sincere Catholic can always find a Catholic Mass, Catholic teaching, good priests, and faithful laity. The sacraments are preserved. The institution of bishop, priest, universal Church, and the local Church is preserved. Communion with the Pope and the local Bishop then guarantees union with the Church. It is true that the more a bishop or priest deviates from Catholic Tradition, and teaches heterodox ideas, the closer he gets to material heresy, and in time even to formal heresy. Yet, hope in the Church rests on Christ's promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.
That does mean we can get a bad liturgy, some invalid or ilicit bishops and priests, even possibly an anti-pope or invalid pope, but it does not mean what the CMRI thinks it means. The Catholic Church as the divinely instituted hierarchy of pope and bishops under him absolutely cannot morph into a False Schismatic Church, leaving only some (a tiny few in their view) true scattered bishops and priests. This equates to claiming the Catholic Church has been destroyed.
But the Church cannot be destroyed. It still exists not only in Rome, and in local diocesan Churches, but it still IS Rome, and still IS the local Churches in union with Rome. The CMRI officially in their literature and conferences rejects this. This explains the situations of cult-like abuse and psychological control of laity, and certain sectarian practices, that accompany this extreme sedevacantism. For example, the CMRI as a rule once had men and women sit on opposite sides of the aisles in church, claiming since this was once in Church history practiced in certain areas, that while this was never the practice of the Catholic Church in North America, it should still be the standard; such a practice was defended to me by a CMRI priest.
The latter view would lead to despair and darkness, whereas the traditional doctrine and traditional ecclesiology leads to a steadfast hope and light. It leads to a socially healthy dynamic, spiritual balance, avoids Jansenism, and guides the Catholic faithful along what St. Thomas calls the Via Media, the Golden Mean, or Middle Path. In everything, including all aspects of faith and morals, and religious practice, this remains the constant tradition of the Church, avoiding all extremes.
One view would unfortunately lead to sectarianism and isolationism, which harms the person and the soul, while the other leads to unity with the universal Catholic Church, true openness to all Catholics, and those seeking the Faith and fellowship in the Church.
This blog always aims to uphold the good, true, and beautiful, and when necessary defend those divine gifts from dangerous errors that would lead us to sin and disturb our peace of soul. Since its beginning, my rhetorical approach is to address universal topics from the perspective of my local experience here in Oklahoma. The Okie Traditionalist therefore always aims to simultaneously examine universal issues from the perspective of Oklahoma culture and the Church here, for the benefit of most readers who are not Okies, while also applying universal ideas to reporting on and discussing local Church affairs.
For example, I have talked about the Francis Effect in the my diocese causing a shift of orthodox Catholics in the backpew of the Novus Ordo eventually making their way now in droves to the FSSP, Sts. Peter and Paul TLM, Holy Cross-Wagoner TLM, or the TLM offered in the Clear Creek Abbey public church. Not in Oklahoma, but nearby, I recently interviewed one of the traditional Sisters of the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of the Angels in Gower, MO about the incorruption of St. Wilhelmina's body, and the medical miracles that followed praying to her. I also have addressed when necessary certain unfortunate changes in my local Church.
In light of this, I invite all members of the CMRI to study the Church's teachings on indefectibilty, and seriously ask if this position of the CMRI poses the risk of formal schism. I invite you to attend the TLM in the Tulsa diocese, Oklahoma city diocese, or the SSPX in OKC. Visit a Novus Ordo parish for Eucharistic Adoration, rosary, Stations of the Cross, visit with the priests and laity. The local opportunties for orthodox piety and fellowship are endless, despite the modernist Crisis.
Please do not turn inward into the view all that is left of the Catholic Church is the CMRI here in eastern Oklahoma or nearby. Visit Clear Creek Abbey, visit Sr. Wilhemina's body and pray for her intercession if having a serious medical condition (mine has greatly resolved because of her miraculous intervention--details are forthcoming in a future post). I pray for the priest and laity there that they will open themselves up to full unity with the local Catholic Church. Sedevacantism is a legitimate open question, but cannot be treated or imposed in any way like a dogma. The Church cannot be destroyed. The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
References:
CMRI website
CMRI conferences on Youtube
CMRI podcast
My personal notes
NewAdvent.org
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma
Vatican I (note very restrictive definition of papal infallibility)
Fr. Hesse on YT conferences explaining validity of new rites of consecration/ordination (traditionalist independent priest, doctorate in theology former Vatican insider, worked for Cardinal Stickler in Rome)
SSPX Articles explaining indefectibility (and its beauty)
Most Precious Blood FSSP Tulsa website
Sts. Peter and Paul website
Holy Cross-Wagoner website (see TLM times)
Clear Creek website
SSPX, FSSP websites OKC
Beautiful Catholic Churches in eastern Oklahoma: Holy Family cathedral, Sts. Peter and Paul shrine of St. Torribeo, Clear Creek Abbey church, many rural parishes built before the Council, St. Therese of Liseaux parish in Collinsville, Cascia Hall preparatory school St. Rita Chapel, etc etc