Sunday, September 24, 2017

SSPX-Tulsa is Officially Closed

This news is for me sad as an Okie Trad from T-town, as one who remains very supportive of the present SSPX.

Some Public Facts:

Here are some facts about the SSPX-Tulsa mission now officially dissolved, which I can share.

Started in 1970.

47 Year History Written HERE.

40+ current members.

10 are elders of the community who helped established the community.

6 young families.   

14 children.

1 new family with 4 children was about to join.

At one point, 150+ members. Many homeschooling families, All Saints Day parties, etc.

The previous church was sold--the equity all goes to the SSPX--which Tulsa laity were planning to use to build a new church, which they saved for decades.

The majority have always supported Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX.  

A history of Eastern Oklahoma Latin Mass Community coming here soon.  

It all started with these core families in 1970, gathering around the side altar at Cascia Hall Preparatory School chapel in Tulsa, where an aged priest continued to celebrate the Mass of All Times.

"Every Diocese is a soul" - ++Lefebvre (quoted in last Tulsa sermon)

Reasons given:

1.  SSPX in USA is growing.  

2.  Priests are stretched thin.

3. Two other similar chapels being closed.

A Society priests drives from St. Mary's, KS to Oklahoma, first to OKC (every Sunday), then to Tulsa, and then back to Kansas.

Now they can only go to OKC.

Comments:

This is a sad day.  St. John Fisher's Chapel has existed since 1970, and is still a community, albeit small with little or no parish life. 

I respect the decision of Fr. Wegner, US District Superior, but considering all the facts, it does beg questions what is happening across the Traditional Movement, and with the Society of Apostolic Life founded by Archbishop Lefebvre (who I personally consider a saint) to bring the Mass of the Ages to souls.


The Comm box is open.  

12 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Think Mass Mob visits to the OKC SSPX chapel. Help OKC grow and make the case for a priory. If OKC gets a priory, then Tulsa could be a mission again.

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  3. This is sad news for sure, especially given the timing - Tulsa seemed ripe for some conversions given Konderla's actions. My heart goes out to those affected.

    I find it hard to blame the SSPX at this juncture, given the growth they are experiencing in other places. The priories with schools are busting at the seems. Check out Walton, KY, for example. I'm not sure what your last statement is getting at, but I don't think we can read too much into this (Laramie seems to be trying to find some ulterior motives at his blog. He was apparently emotionally invested in the SSPX presence. We'll be praying for his family). The number of faithful availing themselves of the sacraments at the SSPX in Tulsa just seems to have dwindled to a point that makes it hard to justify the extra hours/miles for a priest who has to be back to work on Monday morning at the college in St. Mary's.

    If there's a way to get creative and work towards building a base that would justify getting the SSPX back to Tulsa, I am all in. Let's figure that out, for sure.

    In OKC, we've welcomed many a Tulsan on Sundays over the years. If we can ease the burden of travel by putting some of you up the night before, I am sure we can make that happen. Or maybe just a meal after Mass before you hit the road again. We are all in this together.


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    1. Thanks for the reply Anonymous.

      First about Laramie, I cant read his mind about ulterior motives, but you would have to ask him. He means well. We all have different personalities and strengths and weaknesses. Like me, he is one guy with a blog people can read or not, disagree with or not. There's plenty I disagree with him about, but I think his negativity about this is in fact warranted, from the perspective of Tulsa Catholics.

      Also, my post is not blaming anyone. It is sharing the facts about St. John Fisher's Chapel, and its closing, for open discussion.

      Three points:

      1. To evaluate well the Tulsa situation, you have to have first-hand knowledge and experience. There are still 40+ members who need the sacraments. Their chapel began in 1970. It needs to continue still, not hypothetically one day in the future. Agreed?

      2. What Tulsa needs is $$$. For transportation and gas to OKC yes. But to build one day here a proper church. Where will that $ come from? Creative solutions would be: network with all Trads in Eastern Oklahoma, keep shedding light on "Francis-Church," give that time, bring in sspx friendly independent priest to Tulsa. To help preserve the souls of the faithful. Many who are not able to frequent OKC due to the facts of life.

      3. How many faithful are required for a priest to drive an extra two hours? Even just once a month? To justify the extra TWO hours to drive to Tulsa? 50? 100? But if Tulsa had 100, from what you wrote, the priest would still have to get back to St. Mary's late.

      How many regular members each Sunday in OKC? If it got down to 40+ members like in Tulsa, what would you think if the Society suddenly left, sold your church, and took the assets? And had to drive 2 hours for the sacraments?

      Like my last comment in the post, Im being rhetorical to discuss. I do hope their transition will turn out peaceable and fruitful. To avoid further division.

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    2. Joseph, it would be hard not to be negative right now. You did , however, stick to the facts and maintain a respectful tone.

      Yes, over the years there has been quite a bit of interaction between the Tulsa and OKC traditionalist communities. If memory serves, there were times when even Fr. Walters would make the drive up to Tulsa. I hope the community can hold it together some how.

      How to move forward? I don't know. God's will is often, but not always, the most practical solution. I figure that one can know he is in God's graces when He keeps asking a little (or a lot) more from you.

      I don't have any immediate answers for you. Please know that there are families at St. Michael's praying for the SSPX community in Tulsa and who want to help in any way they can. I wish I could say there were plans in the works to make OKC a priory. Perhaps if we keep growing.

      To answer your questions about St. Michael's, we probably have between 200 and 250 on any given Sunday. From what is published in the bulletin, the collection is north of $2,000 most every week. There are a ton of kids. They have catechism classes for all ages every Sunday. The choir is amazing. There's a Eucharistic Crusade group, different devotions during the week when Father is not in town, formal alter server training, a men's group on the first Saturday of the month, an informal young adults group, etc. It's a vibrant and growing community. And like any social entity, we also have our quirks. It's human nature, right?

      We would all, of course, be devastated if our community dropped in numbers and the SSPX had to move on. I know most of the families would make the drive though. We've done it before, and it was always worth it.

      As for the assets, our chapel, which has always been independently owned by a lay-run non-for-profit started by the primary benefactor, just recently transferred ownership to the SSPX.

      God bless.

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    3. Thanks for all that info. I do understand you all had a situation where the Fraternity left with some members, taking property and assets. The faithful there felt abandoned. Even though the FSSP it was said did not treat the parish fairly, was the Fraternity really malicious by leaving and taking people and money? I would argue that there was a division about the Crisis and being "traditional Catholic," and in the end despite the rift, most on each side were good-willed. Were you there then? Didn't you feel like they coldly turned their back on you? That the property/money issue wasn't handled transparently. To me, when a parish community invests their income for decades into building the church, morally at least (if not legally), some of that equity should remain, even if the priestly society (fssp, sspx, etc, etc) should sell the church, suddenly one day leave, and take it with them. Is that not a fair analogy to Tulsa? Not the same, but a similar experience on the level of the laity. If it happened to you before, or did on Sunday to Tulsa, why couldn't that kind of questionable transition take place again, no matter what priestly society pastors the parish.

      The Tulsa Chapel does basically support the Society. 40+ members. 14 children. 6 young families. Most probably will not have the ability to frequent OKC.

      Can you ask people in OKC What can be done to maintain the Tulsa Chapel as it is? For the sacraments, the Faith. They now will have $0.00. All the church property will be gone--beautiful vestments, altars, tabernacle, statues, etc, etc. All home

      Would you support the Tulsa Chapel if an SSPX-friendly independent priest pastored it?

      If so, and all $ goes to SSPX, can members there help Tulsa continue, financially? Just the basics would be $5K. Start a gofundme?

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  4. I tried to post this to your thread on the blog, so here it goes.

    As the admin knows, I am a supporter of the SSPX even though I don't go. I know it may seem like doom and gloom to the SSPX family in Tulsa, but here is something to consider. Most Precious Blood Parish has the Mass, but also has the full parish life. Trads have had the ghetto mentality for so long they think they should be content with just the Mass, if they are lucky once a week, if not less. There is a place in Tulsa, where the Vetus Ordo is celebrated every single day and twice on Sundays and Holy Days. The sacraments are all according to the old rite. There is confession before and durning Mass. The rosary is said before Mass. There is a mother's and children's adoration every month. There is a thriving Men's group. There are monthly pot lucks and pot lucks at major feasts. There is adult and children's education in the faith. There are public processions at the feasts. There is the full Catholic life. To be truly traditional Catholic is to be part of traditional Catholic parish life.

    Living Catholic tradition is more than just the Mass, albeit the Mass is primary, the Catholic life is one that is not living in a ghetto. There is more to being Catholic than the smells and bells for 1 hour a week. Being around other local traditional Catholics who can help you build your faith and support you in times of spiritual and temporal need is part of living the Catholic life, for as St. Paul tells us we live in this world, but are not part of this world. This does exist in Tulsa at Most Precious Blood Parish. We are a growing and not shrinking parish with over 200 communicants every Sunday and growing. 14 baptisms just last year with many this year and more coming next year. Tons of supportive home schooling families.

    I'm in agreement with Michael Matt, Chris Ferrara, and John Vennari (RIP) that traditional Catholics need to be working together. The infighting has got to stop. Is the FSSP perfect? No! Is the SSPX perfect? No! There is no perfection this side of eternity. Are there valid concerns on both sides? Yes! Could we, in this time of great need and sorrow within Holy Mother Church, band together? Heck yeah! Was I proud to stand side-by-side with my SSPX brothers in Christ when that sick bastard satanist desecrated Our Lady? You bet I was. Was I happy that the FSSP turn out was so small? No. Would we be better together than torn apart? I sure think so. We either hang together or we will hang separately.

    With that said, I would invite every single one of you to the parish. Come and experience full parish life. You are all brothers in Christ and are welcome and we would love to have you.

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    1. Thanks Okiepapist. I understand that the SSPX-Tulsa pastor did say from the pulpit at the last Mass, that while the SSPX does not ordinarily recommend laity to go to the FSSP, in the case of Tulsa, they can consider the FSSP parish for their sacramental needs.

      Most Precious Blood does seem to be very traditional with a great parish life. Especially Mass every Sunday (and weekday), and a resident traditional priest for all their sacramental and pastoral needs. It would be similar to living near a thriving SSPX priory chapel.

      Can you let Fr know to expect many to start coming? Since the Society priest recommended that option anyway.

      Besides, many who support the FSSP I sense are becoming more and more supportive of the SSPX. And Archbishop Lefebvre.

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  5. It seems to me there's been a deal cut in Rome (despite what's said publicly) and SSPX and FSSP are carving up the U.S--SSPX recommending the FSSP as they get 'a priory' in OKC. Just doesn't seem honest that after 40 years a priest can't make a 2 hour drive to give the sacraments or educate 14 children like you say at least once a month.

    On the other hand, God might be doing you a favor. Doesn't seem to be too much difference between the N.O., FSSP & SSPX at this point if Post Falls 'facebook' is any indication: no veils (and they just posted another no veil wedding on their website), strapless ballgowns, jeans, mini-skirts. Might as well join the episcopal church: some will have priests, some will have lay ministers, and some will have karioke, but who cares as long as everyone gets along and Matt Matt and Chris Ferrara get how many paid (by whom) conferences, pilgrimages and European vacations each year?

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Immaculate-Conception-Church/147287525316525

    h/t
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/09/diabolical-disorientation-in-post-falls.html

    Maybe some of you Tulsans might be interested in attending a conference yourselves:

    http://pistrinaliturgica.blogspot.com/

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  6. SSPX is in a world of hurt for new leadership starting at the TOP.

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  7. This "shortage of priests" line, and the other one " people all over the world are begging us to come" is wearing a bit thin. I have heard priests complaining about having to celebrate 3 Masses on a Sunday at various locations even though they are doing nothing for the rest of the entire week and have all the time in the world to recuperate. The Pay Up & Shut Up Society.

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